{"slug":"follow-your-heart-yunman-talk","title":"风光摄影需要遵从自己的内心 - Thomas对话摄影师云漫","author":"Thomas看看世界","date":"2019-03-10","wechat":"https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI4NDA5MzE5NQ==&mid=2247488499&idx=1&sn=53c28c7f7fa771b4715070fdcdf68a69&chksm=eb81ed97dcf6648112b12e3b5bd33e343bedbf45b9a3245d54fbd3a2a0c53007c37336ab0338&scene=21#wechat_redirect","blocks":[{"t":"h","x":"Thomas看看世界","xe":"Thomas Chu Photo"},{"t":"p","x":"前几天在星粲工作室的朵爷和杰克兔的组织下，托马斯和著名的华人风光摄影师云漫老师进行了一次交流，话题包括各自的经历，多元化的风格，以及器材、技术、经历对摄影的影响。","b":false,"xe":"A few days ago, organized by Duoye and Jack Rabbit of the Xingcan Studio (星粱工作室), Thomas had a conversation with the renowned Chinese landscape photographer Yunman (云漫). The topics covered their respective experiences, diverse styles, and the influence of equipment, technique, and experience on photography."},{"t":"p","x":"以下是对话的整理稿，感谢星粲工作室编辑们的工作。","b":false,"xe":"The following is an edited transcript of the conversation. Thanks to the editors at Xingcan Studio (星粱工作室) for their work."},{"t":"img","f":"img-02","w":552,"h":287},{"t":"p","x":"iCanStudio,《星粲对话》","b":false,"xe":"iCanStudio, \"The Xingcan Dialogue\" (《星粱对话》)"},{"t":"p","x":"王安石说：“而世之奇伟、瑰怪，非常之观，常在于险远，而人之所罕至焉，故非有志者不能至也。”","b":false,"xe":"Wang Anshi once said: \"The world's most majestic, marvelous and extraordinary sights often lie in perilous and distant places rarely reached by man, so only those of strong will can reach them.\""},{"t":"p","x":"风光摄影师就是实实在在的有志者，他们风餐露宿、风尘仆仆，始终不忘初心，克服一切恶劣艰难的自然条件，孜孜不倦的探索绮丽壮美的自然风光。","b":false,"xe":"Landscape photographers are truly people of strong will. They brave the elements, camp out in the wilderness and travel wearily, never forgetting their original aspirations. Overcoming all harsh and difficult natural conditions, they tirelessly explore the magnificent and beautiful scenery of nature."},{"t":"p","x":"本期\"星粲对话\"，我们有幸邀请到了两位优秀的风光摄影师：云漫(胡亦鸣)老师和Thomas老师，希望通过他们对摄影的专业探讨，给我们广大的摄影爱好者以及专业的摄影师们，带来更加国际化、全方位的视角，从而能更深入地思考并找到一条适合自己的摄影理念。","b":false,"xe":"In this episode of \"The Xingcan Dialogue\" (《星粱对话》), we are honored to invite two outstanding landscape photographers: Yunman (Hu Yiming) (云漫(胡亦鸣)) and Thomas. Through their professional discussion on photography, we hope to bring a more international and comprehensive perspective to photography enthusiasts and professional photographers alike, helping everyone think more deeply and find a photography philosophy that suits them."},{"t":"img","f":"img-03","w":287,"h":153},{"t":"img","f":"img-04","w":291,"h":275},{"t":"h","x":"1","xe":"1"},{"t":"h","x":"摄影经历","xe":"Photography Journey"},{"t":"img","f":"img-05","w":1079,"h":1079},{"t":"p","x":"主持人：杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Host: Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"两位老师是之前就认识吗？是怎样的机缘巧合之下认识的呢？","b":false,"xe":"Had the two of you known each other before? How did you two happen to meet?"},{"t":"p","x":"我和Thomas从来没见过面，算是神交吧，我是在图虫上很早就开始关注他，在微信朋友圈里我们也时常互动，我一些出版社的编辑朋友们也会常和我谈起他和推荐他。","b":false,"xe":"Thomas and I had never met in person — you could call it a spiritual friendship. I started following him on Tuchong (图虫) very early on, and we often interacted on WeChat Moments. Some of my editor friends at publishing houses would often mention and recommend him to me."},{"t":"img","f":"img-06","w":640,"h":640},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"我也是很早之前就开始关注胡老师，当时是在摄影无忌上看到胡老师关于美国西部风光以及一些风光技术的帖子，然后也是在图虫上面经常看到胡老师的作品。","b":false,"xe":"I also started following Teacher Hu a long time ago. Back then I saw his posts about the American West and landscape techniques on Xitek (摄影无忌), and I frequently saw his work on Tuchong (图虫) as well."},{"t":"p","x":"所以说，今天真的非常高兴，能和胡老师进行一个关于风光摄影的交流。当然也非常感谢朵爷和杰克兔的组织。","b":false,"xe":"So I'm really delighted to have this exchange with Teacher Hu about landscape photography today. Of course, I also want to thank Duoye and Jack Rabbit for organizing it."},{"t":"p","x":"那么胡老师除了风光摄影之外呢，以前还有没有尝试过其他的一些摄影门类？比如说人像、人文之类的。","b":false,"xe":"Apart from landscape photography, Teacher Hu, did you ever try other genres of photography before — like portraits or documentary work?"},{"t":"p","x":"和多数人一样吧，一开始就是什么都喜欢，人像也试过，街拍、风光、扫街，甚至城市旅游啊等等。其实一开始和很多人一样，我旅游片拍的很多，有段时间的话，有些旅游杂志还找我(拍)，像欧洲城市旅游、美国城市旅游等等。","b":false,"xe":"Like most people, at first I liked everything. I tried portraits, street photography, landscapes, urban snapshots, and even city travel photography. Actually, like many people, I shot a lot of travel photos in the beginning. For a while, some travel magazines even commissioned me to shoot European city travel, American city travel, and so on."},{"t":"p","x":"但是后来我慢慢的发现，我的个人兴趣还真的不是在这些方面。我是随着自己拍照越来越深入，我发现自己越来越喜欢那种纯自然的东西，所以我觉得呢，走向风光摄影这条路是必然的规律吧。","b":false,"xe":"But later I gradually discovered that my personal interest really wasn't in those areas. As I delved deeper into photography, I found myself increasingly drawn to pure nature. So I think taking the path of landscape photography was a natural inevitability for me."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"胡老师是从大学就开始爱好摄影，那已经是非常长的时间了，那么胡老师在做摄影这么长的一个过程中，有没有遇到过瓶颈期，然后在这段时期，胡老师是怎么去克服、怎么去提高自己的呢？","b":false,"xe":"Teacher Hu, you've loved photography since college, which is already a very long time. During this long journey in photography, did you ever hit a plateau? And if so, how did you overcome it and improve yourself during that period?"},{"t":"p","x":"虽然是从大学开始摄影吧，但是因为一直没深入研究，我觉得这个过程再长也没用，10年，20年永远是在低水平的层次。","b":false,"xe":"Although I started photography in college, I never studied it in depth. I think no matter how long that period lasts, it's useless — whether for 10 years or 20, I'd always remain at a low level."},{"t":"p","x":"我认真开始做的话，大概是十几年前，我那个时候工作很稳定了，我的大学终身教授(职称)也拿到了，并且买了第一部数码单反，从那个时候开始才深入的开始玩摄影，现在算算也有十几年了。","b":false,"xe":"As for when I seriously began, it was about a decade-plus ago. By then my job was stable, I'd earned my university tenure, and I'd bought my first digital SLR. That's when I started getting deeply into photography. Looking back, it's been over ten years now."},{"t":"p","x":"这时回头看看自己的历程的话，成长还是蛮多的，确实有些时候碰到瓶颈，刚开始觉得好难啊，然后慢慢觉得自己就很不错啦。但是呢，以后你再静下来看，确实就是会遇到一个瓶颈期，自己也会觉得很难往上成长。","b":false,"xe":"Looking back at my journey now, I've grown quite a lot. There were indeed times when I hit plateaus. At first it felt so hard, and then gradually I'd feel pretty good about myself. But later, when you calm down and reflect, you do encounter a plateau where it feels very hard to keep growing."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"我觉得我和一些目前最好的摄影师，比如说美国的Marc Adams、我的好朋友Jeff，经常一起交流交流很多摄影思想，和他们一起聊天和对话对我的帮助还是蛮大的，我会去反思现在走的这条路是不是该突破，该换一换了。","b":false,"xe":"I find that communicating regularly with some of the best photographers today — like America's Marc Adams and my good friend Jeff — and exchanging a lot of photographic ideas with them, has been very helpful to me. I reflect on whether the path I'm on should be broken through or changed."},{"t":"p","x":"对我来说的话呢，突破自己的瓶颈期，一个是要多想，一个是需要谦虚，你不能总觉得自己是很好很好的。","b":false,"xe":"For me, breaking through a plateau requires two things: thinking a lot, and staying humble. You can't always think you're really, really good."},{"t":"p","x":"要知道，天下有很多人都是值得我学习的。不管是年纪大的、老一辈的摄影师，还是年轻一代，都值得我学习。特别是年轻一代，他们的新的想法很多，再一个就是我也会经常跟全世界最顶级的摄影师去交流，去学习。","b":false,"xe":"You should know that there are many people in the world worth learning from. Whether they're older, veteran photographers or the younger generation, all are worth learning from. Especially the younger generation — they have so many new ideas. Also, I frequently exchange ideas with and learn from the world's top photographers."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"胡老师刚刚提到了Marc Adams，这位摄影师在国内也是非常热门，大家都很好奇胡老师是如何和Marc认识的？","b":false,"xe":"Teacher Hu just mentioned Marc Adams. This photographer is also very popular in China, and everyone is curious about how you two met."},{"t":"p","x":"还有就是胡老师在和Marc出去拍摄的过程中，有没有获得过一些收获，就是从他的身上发现一些大家可以去学习的东西或者精神？","b":false,"xe":"Also, during your shoots with Marc, did you gain anything — did you discover qualities or a spirit in him that others could learn from?"},{"t":"p","x":"说到我怎么跟Marc Adams认识的，是几年前我们有一个偶然机会，有个合作项目，本来想介绍个朋友参加他的摄影团，后来那个朋友有事没去成，后来我们聊到在阿拉斯加有个地方全世界都没有人拍过，他就提议说要不我们一起去探险。","b":false,"xe":"As for how I met Marc Adams, a few years ago we had a chance opportunity through a collaborative project. Originally I wanted to introduce a friend to join his photography workshop, but that friend couldn't make it. Later we talked about a place in Alaska that no one in the world had ever photographed, and he suggested we go explore it together."},{"t":"p","x":"所以我们第一次见面，跟他合作，就是我们去阿拉斯加那次。我们是乘直升飞机去寻找满意的地方，找到了就下去看看，不合适我们再继续飞继续找。然后找好就下去露营，露营的地方其实挺危险的，各种熊出没，还是完全彻底的无人区。","b":false,"xe":"So our first meeting and collaboration was that trip to Alaska. We flew by helicopter to look for ideal locations — when we found one we'd land and check it out, and if it wasn't right we'd keep flying and searching. Once we found a good spot we'd camp there. The camping was actually quite dangerous, with bears roaming around, in completely uninhabited wilderness."},{"t":"p","x":"但是对我们来说收获很大，我们发现了一些全世界最好的、最有趣的摄影点。从我个人来说的话，我从他那里确实是学到很多东西。","b":false,"xe":"But it was very rewarding for us — we discovered some of the best and most interesting photo locations in the world. Personally, I truly learned a great deal from him."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"h","x":"2","xe":"2"},{"t":"h","x":"摄影风格与东西方差异","xe":"Photography Styles and East-West Differences"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"所以两位老师，你们是否认同，你们自己乃至中国现阶段的摄影体系都引入自国外摄影师是吗？比如Marc Adamus。我们是没有自己的风光摄影体系，需要去继承国外的体系，对吗？","b":false,"xe":"So, both of you, do you agree that your own work — and indeed China's current photography system — was imported from foreign photographers like Marc Adamus? Is it true that we don't have our own landscape photography system and need to inherit a foreign one?"},{"t":"p","x":"从体系来说的话，我觉得现在我们的风光摄影体系确实是以西方为主的，但摄影本身就是一个西方人发明的东西，所以这个倒没什么可说的。","b":false,"xe":"In terms of the system, I do think our landscape photography system today is predominantly Western. But photography itself was invented by Westerners, so there's not much to argue about there."},{"t":"p","x":"不过也谈不上全盘引进，我们中国摄影师和西方摄影师也是有很多共性的，但是也有很多特性。","b":false,"xe":"Still, it's not a wholesale import. Chinese and Western photographers share many commonalities, but also have many distinctive traits."},{"t":"p","x":"然后很多人说我的照片看起来像西方摄影师拍的，但也有人说我的照片还是可以看出中国摄影师的影子。","b":false,"xe":"Many people say my photos look like they were taken by a Western photographer, but others say traces of a Chinese photographer can still be seen in them."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"对于东西方的差别，我自己感觉可能西方的风光摄影师会更写实一些，因为风光摄影在西方最初是用来探索地理风貌的，甚至到了后面的社会景观、人造地形，他们都是一些比较写实的风格，包括对透视、结构、色彩的应用等等。","b":false,"xe":"Regarding the East-West difference, my own feeling is that Western landscape photographers tend to be more realistic. That's because landscape photography in the West was originally used to explore geographic features, and even later with social landscapes and man-made terrain, the style remained fairly realistic — including their use of perspective, structure, color, and so on."},{"t":"p","x":"中国的摄影师受到古代山水文人画的影响，会更多注重写意、意境。包括很早之前的郎静山，何藩等等。同样是画意摄影，中国的会更像国画，而西方的画意摄影更像油画。","b":false,"xe":"Chinese photographers, influenced by ancient landscape literati painting, pay more attention to freehand expression and artistic conception. This includes early masters like Lang Jingshan (郎静山) and He Fan (何樊). In the same pictorialist tradition, Chinese work resembles Chinese ink painting, while Western pictorialism resembles oil painting."},{"t":"p","x":"郎静山老师的集锦摄影可能是个特例，但是除他之外，别的摄影师的风格也好，技术手段也好，几乎都还是西方的东西。","b":false,"xe":"Lang Jingshan's composite photography might be an exception, but apart from him, other photographers' styles and techniques are almost entirely Western in origin."},{"t":"p","x":"就像是黑白意境这种类型的作品，比如英国的麦克肯纳，他的每张照片都很有意境，很有东方的风格，这个可能也是他在东方，特别是在日本，比在西方更受欢迎的原因吧。","b":false,"xe":"Take monochrome atmospheric works, for example, like Britain's Michael Kenna. Every one of his photos is full of mood and has a very Eastern feel. That might be why he's more popular in the East — especially in Japan — than in the West."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"所以，源头是因为我们华裔的摄影师的出发点是在讨好型人格？人格、性格造就了我们更需要获得别的人的认可，才会更关注夸张的、魔幻的风格？用来取悦别人对吗？","b":false,"xe":"So is the root cause that the starting point of us Chinese-descendant photographers lies in a people-pleasing personality? Did our personality and character make us crave others' approval, which is why we focus on exaggerated, fantastical styles — to please others? Is that right?"},{"t":"p","x":"两位老师对此是如何看待。","b":false,"xe":"What do the two of you think about this?"},{"t":"p","x":"兔爷说的那些魔幻夸张的风格，其实跟华裔真的没什么关系，当然华裔摄影师有很多喜欢（拍）这类风格，但是我们华裔摄影师也喜欢别的风格呀，而真正这些做得更多的是西方人，所以，这个可能跟华裔没什么关系。讨好别人、追求吸引眼球这种行为其实不分种族的。","b":false,"xe":"The fantastical, exaggerated styles Brother Rabbit mentioned really have nothing to do with being Chinese-descendant. Of course, many Chinese-descendant photographers do like such styles, but we also like other styles. In fact, it's Westerners who do this kind of thing even more. So it probably has nothing to do with being Chinese-descendant. Pleasing others and seeking attention aren't behaviors unique to any race."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"兔爷觉得这个夸张魔幻的风格是因为讨好型人格，我个人不是这么看的。我觉得还是因为国内摄影的发展处于初级阶段，所以风格比较单一。","b":false,"xe":"Brother Rabbit thinks this exaggerated, fantastical style comes from a people-pleasing personality, but I don't see it that way. I think it's because domestic photography is still in its early stages, so the styles are relatively homogeneous."},{"t":"p","x":"不光是风光摄影，在其他摄影里面，其实我觉得也是普遍存在的一个现象。在《海岸线》、《北流活活》之后，大家也是一窝蜂的就去拍那种景大人小退饱和的风格，题材全是什么故乡啊、成长记忆啊、长江黄河啊之类的。","b":false,"xe":"This isn't just true of landscape photography — I think it's a widespread phenomenon across photography. After \"Coastline\" (《海岸线》) and \"Beiliu River\" (《北流活活》), everyone flocked to the style of big landscapes, tiny people, and desaturated colors, with subjects like hometowns, childhood memories, the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers, and so on."},{"t":"p","x":"总的来说还是因为大家知道的太少，有一些北美摄影师，引入了这种欧美的魔幻风，然后大家就一窝蜂的去模仿这种形式。拍城市建筑的时候，大家又一窝蜂的模仿那种ins风。一种风格被引入到国内之后，大家觉得很新奇，就一窝蜂的全部去模仿这种风格。","b":false,"xe":"Overall, it's because people simply know too little. Some North American photographers introduced this Western fantastical style, and everyone rushed to imitate it. When shooting urban architecture, everyone rushed to imitate the \"Instagram style.\" Once a style is introduced to China and people find it novel, they all flock to copy it."},{"t":"p","x":"更深层次的原因，可能跟整个社会的经济发展水平也有关系。大家的生活方式和背景都比较单一，所以拍出来的都差不多，或者只能去模仿。","b":false,"xe":"At a deeper level, it may also relate to the society's overall level of economic development. People's lifestyles and backgrounds are fairly homogeneous, so what they shoot all looks similar — or they can only imitate."},{"t":"p","x":"国内还比较少Jimmy Chin那样为了攀岩在面包车里住了7年的摄影师，也没有Stephen Shore那样周围都是艺术牛人的成长环境，我们去观察国外那些摄影师，会发现他们的经历可以说是千奇百怪。","b":false,"xe":"In China there are still few photographers like Jimmy Chin, who lived in a van for seven years to pursue climbing, nor do we have growth environments like Stephen Shore's, surrounded by brilliant artists. When we look at foreign photographers, we find their experiences are extraordinarily diverse."},{"t":"p","x":"我相信未来年轻一代的摄影师风格会越来越多样化，因为他们的背景太不同了，很多都在自己喜欢的领域深耕。我遇到过15岁就骑行川藏线的学生，也有很多绘画背景的人开始用摄影来创作，还有一些从小就喜欢收集各种稀奇古怪物件的牛人，当大家的成长背景和看待世界的方式不同的时候，肯定可以拍出来不一样的作品。","b":false,"xe":"I believe the younger generation of photographers will become more and more diverse in style, because their backgrounds are so different and many are delving deep into fields they love. I've met students who rode bicycles along the Sichuan-Tibet route at age 15, many people with painting backgrounds who've turned to photography for creation, and some amazing people who've collected strange and wonderful objects since childhood. When people's upbringings and ways of seeing the world differ, they're bound to produce distinctive work."},{"t":"p","x":"很多时候咱们还是需要一个桥梁，来连接东西方文化，你想，新手直接去学习国外最新的一些东西的，就会有很多障碍，像是语言、思维方式这些方面。","b":false,"xe":"Many times we still need a bridge to connect Eastern and Western cultures. Think about it — beginners who go straight to learning the latest foreign trends face many obstacles, such as language and ways of thinking."},{"t":"p","x":"而且很多时候国内顶尖的摄影师啊，包括新生一代的摄影师，我觉得已经不能说是中间商了，其实他们已经和全世界最顶尖的、最优秀的摄影师站在同一个层次上，大家都在往前努力，都在开拓新的领域。","b":false,"xe":"Moreover, many of China's top photographers — including the new generation — can no longer be called middlemen, I think. They already stand on the same level as the world's finest and most outstanding photographers. Everyone is pushing forward and exploring new frontiers."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"所以说我是觉得未来需要更多的国内的摄影师以及摄影机构去搭建这个桥梁。现在越来越多的国外摄影师会到中国来办讲座，来当中国比赛的评委等等。","b":false,"xe":"So I think in the future we need more domestic photographers and photography organizations to build this bridge. More and more foreign photographers now come to China to give lectures and serve as judges for Chinese competitions, and so on."},{"t":"p","x":"我觉得这些都是很好的交流的形式，而且国外摄影师现在也是越来越重视中国的市场，所以说我们其实可以利用这个契机去介绍更多的摄影师。引进他们的多样风格，更重要的是吸收他们个性化的视角、创新的思维以及追求极致的精神。","b":false,"xe":"I think these are all great forms of exchange, and foreign photographers are increasingly valuing the Chinese market. So we can actually seize this opportunity to introduce more photographers, bring in their diverse styles, and — more importantly — absorb their personal perspectives, innovative thinking, and spirit of pursuing perfection."},{"t":"h","x":"3","xe":"3"},{"t":"h","x":"需要关注“点赞”吗","xe":"Do You Need to Care About \"Likes\"?"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"所以你们并不建议新手摄影师太关注别人给自己的赞？你们建议新手摄影师如何保持好自己跟社交平台的关系？既做到不流失认知度，又同时能开拓自己的风格，不被流量带坏心态？","b":false,"xe":"So do you advise beginner photographers not to care too much about the likes they receive? How do you suggest beginner photographers maintain a healthy relationship with social platforms — keeping their recognition without losing it, while also developing their own style and not letting the pursuit of traffic corrupt their mindset?"},{"t":"p","x":"我们说到自媒体或者是社交网站，像是微信、图虫等等，确实会让图片的流通方便很多，但同时也造成一窝蜂的现象。","b":false,"xe":"When we talk about social media or social networking sites like WeChat and Tuchong (图虫), they do make it much easier for images to circulate, but they also create a herd-mentality phenomenon."},{"t":"p","x":"很多摄影师去追求点赞、追究吸引眼球的东西，这样自然也会造成风格的雷同，目前流行什么就拍什么，这是我们希望大家能够尽量避免的。","b":false,"xe":"Many photographers chase likes and attention-grabbing content, which naturally leads to homogeneous styles — shooting whatever is trendy at the moment. This is something we hope everyone can try to avoid."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"关于赞的这个问题，我自己认为其实我们要辩证的去看。","b":false,"xe":"On the question of likes, I personally think we should look at it dialectically."},{"t":"p","x":"比如你发一张照片，赞如果比较少，可能有很多种原因，可能你本身还不太知名，那么你就需要提高自己的知名度；","b":false,"xe":"For example, if a photo you post gets relatively few likes, there could be many reasons. Maybe you're not well-known yet, in which case you need to raise your profile."},{"t":"p","x":"或者说你去做一些实验性、探索性的东西，那么可能大家确实不太理解你的思路和想法，那么你就会知道，确实可能是因为大家的不理解，但是你自己是正确的。","b":false,"xe":"Or maybe you're doing something experimental and exploratory, so people genuinely don't understand your approach and ideas. Then you'll know it's likely due to others' lack of understanding, while you yourself are on the right track."},{"t":"p","x":"当然很有可能就是这张图片确实拍的不好，那就需要我们分析下你哪里拍得不好，或者说哪里不符合大家的口味。","b":false,"xe":"Of course, it's also quite possible the photo genuinely isn't good, in which case we need to analyze where it fell short, or what doesn't match people's taste."},{"t":"p","x":"当然摄影师需要关注自己的目标客户。大众点赞只是一方面，客户、甲方、同行、评委、编辑等等的点赞也许更重要。","b":false,"xe":"Of course, photographers need to pay attention to their target clients. Public likes are only one aspect — the approval of clients, clients' organizations, peers, judges, editors, and so on may matter even more."},{"t":"h","x":"4","xe":"4"},{"t":"h","x":"技术的发展","xe":"The Development of Technology"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"其实我学习到的很多概念，包括最开始的亮度蒙版、景深合成、焦段合成等等，都是通过胡老师，以及四光圈、极影的其他老师介绍知道的。","b":false,"xe":"Actually, many of the concepts I've learned — including luminosity masks, focus stacking, focal-length blending, and so on — I first learned about through Teacher Hu and other members of 4Aperture (四光圈) and AdventureX (极影)."},{"t":"p","x":"那么我想问胡老师，对风光摄影的技术发展是如何看待的？技术的发展对风光摄影会带来怎样的影响，是会让风光摄影更加大众化，更加容易去上手?还是让风光摄影变得更难掌握呢？","b":false,"xe":"So I'd like to ask Teacher Hu: how do you view the technological development of landscape photography? What impact will technology have on it — will it make landscape photography more accessible and easier to pick up, or harder to master?"},{"t":"p","x":"这些各种前期后期技术是给我们提供了更大的可能性，但是似乎并没有让摄影变得更加容易，在某种意义上反而更难了，因为你作为新手来说的话，会要学习更多的东西，从前期技术到后期的技巧。","b":false,"xe":"These various pre- and post-processing techniques do offer us greater possibilities, but they don't seem to have made photography easier. In a way, it's become harder, because as a beginner you now have to learn more — from shooting techniques to post-processing skills."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"而且现在风光摄影技术的发展，不光是拍摄和后期处理的技术。比如像胡老师很推荐的planit软件，在我们的计划选题上面就可能有一定程度的影响。","b":false,"xe":"Moreover, the development of landscape photography technology today isn't limited to shooting and post-processing. For example, software like planit, which Teacher Hu strongly recommends, can influence our planning and subject selection to a certain degree."},{"t":"p","x":"而且随着现在的传播媒介的发展，一些杂志、书籍、画册会慢慢的从主流媒介中淡出。现在人人都可以通过Ins、图虫、微博甚至抖音来发表自己的摄影作品。","b":false,"xe":"Also, with the development of modern media, magazines, books, and portfolios will gradually fade from mainstream media. Now everyone can publish their photography through Instagram, Tuchong (图虫), Weibo, or even Douyin."},{"t":"p","x":"像现在这种全方位的技术发展，比如前期规划、传播媒介等等，胡老师觉得这些技术的发展对摄影未来的趋势走向会有怎么样的影响，摄影师如何才不会被时代所淘汰？","b":false,"xe":"Given this kind of all-around technological development — like pre-planning and media channels — Teacher Hu, what impact do you think these technologies will have on photography's future trends? How can photographers avoid being left behind by the times?"},{"t":"p","x":"当然，刚才那句话是对初学者来说的，我觉得对于有一定水平的业余爱好者来说，这些新的技术确实可以大大提高大家出片的水平，比方说以前很多拍不到的东西，或者是曝光很难控制的场景，现在拍起来是容易多了。所以呢，我们很多刚刚开始摄影几年的朋友，都可以拍出相当不错的作品，这在以前是很难想象的。","b":false,"xe":"Of course, that last point was about beginners. For amateur enthusiasts with some skill, I think these new technologies can genuinely raise the quality of everyone's output. For example, many things we couldn't capture before, or scenes where exposure was hard to control, are now much easier to shoot. So many friends who've only been into photography for a few years can produce quite impressive work — something hard to imagine in the past."},{"t":"p","x":"你刚刚提到的planit这个软件，确实会让我们的摄影计划做的更容易。不过这我们也得小心哈，也不要一窝蜂，否则的话很容易又出现雷同的事情，比方说以前看到那种很奇特的天文现象，像是月亮正好在某个山头，这种就很难，要碰运气。现在呢，网上铺天盖地的全是这种片子，也很容易造成审美疲劳。","b":false,"xe":"The planit software you just mentioned does make our photography planning much easier. But we also need to be careful — don't all jump on the bandwagon, or we'll easily end up with repetitive results. For example, we used to see rare astronomical phenomena like the moon perfectly aligned above a mountain peak — those were hard to get and required luck. Now the internet is flooded with such shots, which easily causes aesthetic fatigue."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"h","x":"5","xe":"5"},{"t":"h","x":"器材重要吗","xe":"Does Equipment Matter?"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"我经常给学生说，我在拍摄日出时可以出5～10个机位的构图，很大程度上是因为我不用浪费时间去用脚架，也几乎不用滤镜，全部靠后期，前期节省时间，提高出片量。两位老师赞同“后期节省前期时间”的观点吗？","b":false,"xe":"I often tell my students that when shooting sunrise I can produce compositions from 5-10 different positions, largely because I don't waste time setting up a tripod and rarely use filters — I rely entirely on post-processing, saving time at the shoot and increasing output. Do you two agree with the idea that \"post-processing saves shooting time\"?"},{"t":"p","x":"今天我们提到了好几次Marc Adamus，我们再用他举个例子，我跟他在一起拍摄的时候也发现他很多时候连三脚架都不用，就是手持。","b":false,"xe":"We've mentioned Marc Adamus several times today, so let's use him as an example. When I shot alongside him, I noticed he often doesn't even use a tripod — he just shoots handheld."},{"t":"p","x":"我知道手持说实话很难做到最好的画质，但手持有个好处，他快，在低机位的时候，特别是相机贴近地面的时候就特别方便，而三脚架可能花个两、三分钟才能调好，他可能几秒钟就好了。","b":false,"xe":"Honestly, I know handheld shooting makes it hard to achieve the best image quality. But handheld has one advantage: speed. At low angles, especially when the camera is near the ground, it's extremely convenient. A tripod might take two or three minutes to set up, while he can be ready in seconds."},{"t":"p","x":"然后他很多时候用f22拍，这样的话景深比较深，但是我很反对用f22，我写了很多文章去说f22画质很差，而且我也有用实拍去证明。","b":false,"xe":"He also often shoots at f/22 to get deep depth of field. But I'm strongly against f/22 — I've written many articles arguing that f/22 gives poor image quality, and I've proven it with real-world tests."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"但是我很能理解Marc的做法，因为他是职业摄影师，他的目的不是去印很大的照片。说实话他的团友告诉我，在店里看到他拍的照片，印刷质量还是很差的，你可以想象到用手持拍的照片画质不会很好。但他是职业摄影师，他是靠带摄影团吃饭的，他的目的是在网上扩大影响力，发的照片越多越好，越快越好，角度越刁钻越好。","b":false,"xe":"But I can fully understand Marc's approach, because he's a professional photographer whose goal isn't printing very large photos. Honestly, his workshop clients told me that when they saw his printed photos in shops, the print quality was quite poor — you can imagine that handheld shots won't have great image quality. But as a professional who makes a living leading photography workshops, his goal is to expand his influence online: the more photos he posts, the faster, and the more unconventional the angles, the better."},{"t":"p","x":"所以这个方式非常适合他，他选择用手持拍摄，快速拍摄，用f22拍，也不需要印大片。","b":false,"xe":"So this approach suits him perfectly. He chooses handheld shooting, fast shooting, f/22, and he doesn't need to print large works."},{"t":"p","x":"但是有些摄影师不一样，比方说用中画幅的、大画幅的摄影师，追求的就是极致的画质，他绝对不会用这种方法拍摄。","b":false,"xe":"But some photographers are different. Those who shoot medium format or large format, for example, pursue ultimate image quality and would never shoot this way."},{"t":"p","x":"其实也没有对错，你是职业摄影师，你非常清楚自己的自己的需求，如果你是顶高级发烧友，也会很清楚自己的追求，希望达到什么样的效果，你要做什么样的事情，没有唯一的正确答案。","b":false,"xe":"In the end there's no right or wrong. If you're a professional photographer, you know exactly what you need. If you're a top-level enthusiast, you also know clearly what you're pursuing, what results you want, and what you need to do. There's no single correct answer."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"我感觉他们都是跟我一样，但我是纯粹因为懒，哈哈哈哈哈，我觉得胡老师说得很好，拍摄效率是我最看中的事。","b":false,"xe":"I feel they're all just like me — except I'm purely lazy, hahaha. I think Teacher Hu put it very well: shooting efficiency is what matters most to me."},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"关于脚架和滤镜，我同意胡老师的观点，每个人根据自己的需求、目的，他可能还是有不同的取舍。","b":false,"xe":"On tripods and filters, I agree with Teacher Hu. Depending on their needs and goals, everyone may make different trade-offs."},{"t":"p","x":"如果你真的是需要追求画质，那么肯定是要上脚架和滤镜的，如果你只是追求快速出图、出效果，然后就发到网上的话，那么其实并不需要对器材特别的在意。","b":false,"xe":"If you truly need to pursue image quality, then you definitely need a tripod and filters. But if you just want fast output and quick results to post online, you don't really need to fuss over equipment."},{"t":"p","x":"我觉得还是根据每个人需求和目的来选择。","b":false,"xe":"I think it comes down to choosing according to each person's needs and goals."},{"t":"p","x":"胡老师提到Marc Adamus的做法，然后我自己和Max Rive以及一些西方摄影师出去，我也发现他们很多人都不是特别喜欢用三脚架。","b":false,"xe":"Teacher Hu mentioned Marc Adamus's approach. And when I've gone shooting with Max Rive and other Western photographers myself, I've also noticed that many of them don't particularly like using tripods."},{"t":"p","x":"Max Rive跟我出去，他都是手持拍摄的，他觉得不带三脚架会更轻便，更容易到处走动，去发现一些不同的机位。他这一点和Marc Adamus是非常相像的，但是这样的图片可能就只能发到网上，真正去看大图的话还是有一点瑕疵的。","b":false,"xe":"When Max Rive goes shooting with me, he always shoots handheld. He feels that without a tripod he's lighter and can move around more easily to discover different vantage points. In this respect he's very similar to Marc Adamus. But such images can probably only be shared online — when you really view them large, there are some flaws."},{"t":"p","x":"许多人用三脚架都有一个坏习惯，就是把脚架放在经典机位，然后就开始等了，而不去探索、搜索一些新的角度。国外摄影师对个性化视角非常在意，如果只是模仿经典机位的构图，他们会觉得称不上是自己的作品。","b":false,"xe":"Many people have a bad habit with tripods: they set up at a classic vantage point and then just wait, without exploring or searching for new angles. Foreign photographers care greatly about a personal perspective — if you merely imitate classic compositions, they'd say it doesn't count as your own work."},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"包括Max Rive他的后期也是很有特点，他完全不用图层，我听说Marc Adamus好像也是不用图层，就只用仿制图章，一种很古老的、过时的技术来操作。","b":false,"xe":"Max Rive's post-processing is also very distinctive — he doesn't use layers at all. I've heard Marc Adamus doesn't use layers either, working only with the clone stamp, a very old and outdated technique."},{"t":"p","x":"我就感觉，可能国外的很多职业摄影师，他们可能并不关注器材，或者技术上的东西，他们可能对照片最终的一个呈现，或者最终的效果还是更关注一些。","b":false,"xe":"My feeling is that many professional photographers abroad may not care much about equipment or technical details; they're more concerned with the final presentation and the final result of their photos."},{"t":"p","x":"他对器材或者具体的技术，其实是忽略的，只要够用就行，只要够看就行，并不需要器材有多么多么的好，然后技术有多么的规范，有多么多么的现代。","b":false,"xe":"They actually disregard equipment and specific techniques — as long as it's sufficient and looks good enough. They don't need the best gear or the most standard, modern techniques."},{"t":"p","x":"确实，Marc Adams也是不用任何图层的，他只是仿制图章反复来修图，对他来说效率第一，因为他每年300天在外边儿，没有时间在电脑前慢慢看，总是在图层里快速的修图。","b":false,"xe":"Indeed, Marc Adams also doesn't use any layers — he just retouches repeatedly with the clone stamp. For him, efficiency comes first, because he spends 300 days a year out in the field and has no time to slowly refine at the computer; he always retouches quickly."},{"t":"p","x":"你把照片放的很大，也许可以看出一些瑕疵，但是他的照片不需要放的很大，我觉得其实每个人找到适合自己的东西就行，他现在这套流程就很适合他自己。","b":false,"xe":"If you enlarge the photos greatly, you might spot some flaws, but his photos don't need to be enlarged. I think everyone just needs to find what suits them — his current workflow suits him very well."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"那这么昂贵的设备，并且限制多了，创作的效率就会降低，你们不担心经济价值产出吗？比如你用中画幅，托马斯用全画幅，我用手机拍摄，这也是我们大家感兴趣的话题。","b":false,"xe":"With such expensive equipment and more constraints, creative efficiency drops. Aren't you worried about economic output? For example, you shoot medium format, Thomas shoots full frame, and I shoot with my phone — this is a topic we're all interested in."},{"t":"p","x":"另外两位老师方便透露你们各自在器材上的投入资金吗？有多少自己花钱？多少是赞助或获奖所得？","b":false,"xe":"Also, would the two of you be willing to share how much you've invested in equipment? How much did you pay out of pocket, and how much came from sponsorships or prizes?"},{"t":"p","x":"因为我不是很商业化，所以我跟厂家没什么合作，除了一两个镜头之外，我好像没有什么被赞助的东西。对我来说这样挺好挺好，我可以随心所欲一点，比如说，佳能不好换了，就换成尼康，过两天尼康又不好用了，佳能更好了，就又换回佳能了。我可以按照自己的需要来，不用考虑厂商的意见。","b":false,"xe":"Because I'm not very commercial, I have few collaborations with manufacturers. Apart from one or two lenses, I don't think I have anything sponsored. For me, that's just fine — I can be free to do as I please. For instance, if Canon isn't working out, I switch to Nikon; a few days later if Nikon isn't great and Canon is better, I switch back to Canon. I can follow my own needs without considering manufacturers' opinions."},{"t":"p","x":"而关于投入和产出，我觉得这是我作为非职业的风光摄影师的好处，我不需要太担心这个事情。但是职业摄影师就需要担心，对职业摄影师来说，器材够用就好。但是对我来说，我肯定是追求极致，我需要最好的。","b":false,"xe":"As for input and output, I think that's the advantage of being a non-professional landscape photographer — I don't need to worry about it much. But professional photographers do need to worry. For them, adequate gear is enough. For me, though, I definitely pursue perfection — I need the best."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"关于器材的话，其实我自己的投入是比较少的，因为我很喜欢旅行，基本上我会把大部分的预算都用到去各个地方旅行上了。","b":false,"xe":"As for equipment, my own investment has been relatively small, because I love traveling — basically I put most of my budget into traveling to different places."},{"t":"p","x":"我从10年一直到15年都是用的尼康D90，一个apsc画幅的相机。之后是接近15年底的才换成了尼康的D750，也是一个入门的全画幅。然后2017年底的时候，和索尼达成了合作，才升级成了索尼a7r3相机。","b":false,"xe":"From 2010 to 2015 I used a Nikon D90, an APS-C camera. Near the end of 2015, I switched to a Nikon D750, also an entry-level full-frame. Then at the end of 2017, after partnering with Sony, I upgraded to the Sony a7R III."},{"t":"p","x":"然后我自己现在用的器材，包括索尼a7r3以及相关的镜头，包括哈苏X1D及相关的镜头都是找厂商借用的，大疆的无人机、海大的滤镜、以及富图宝的三脚架也是有和厂商合作。","b":false,"xe":"The equipment I use now — including the Sony a7R III and related lenses, as well as the Hasselblad X1D and related lenses — are all borrowed from manufacturers. I also collaborate with manufacturers on the DJI drone, Haida filters, and Fotopro tripods."},{"t":"p","x":"器材厂商不会因为你用某种器材而和你合作，更多的是因为你作品的辨识度、完成度以及流行程度。对于初学者而言，应该把更多的资源花在创作上，器材可以循序渐进。","b":false,"xe":"Equipment manufacturers don't collaborate with you because of the gear you use, but rather because of the distinctiveness, completeness, and popularity of your work. For beginners, more resources should go into creation — equipment can be upgraded gradually."},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"谈到器材的话，不知道胡老师对于器材和摄影的关系是怎么看的，因为以前大家都非常关注器材，甚至是只关注器材。","b":false,"xe":"Speaking of equipment, I wonder how Teacher Hu views the relationship between equipment and photography. In the past, everyone was very focused on equipment — even exclusively so."},{"t":"p","x":"但现在又有一些人完全不关注器材，觉得手机也能拍大片，手机拍一下发到朋友圈就已经足够看了，觉得没必要去买很好的器材。","b":false,"xe":"But now some people pay no attention to equipment at all, thinking a phone can produce great images — a phone shot posted to Moments is good enough, so there's no need to buy good gear."},{"t":"p","x":"对对这个器材和摄影的关系，胡老师您是怎么看的，对新手有没有什么建议呢？","b":false,"xe":"So on this relationship between equipment and photography, what are your views, Teacher Hu? Do you have any advice for beginners?"},{"t":"p","x":"很多人说好的作品和器材其实没太大关系，确实，好的作品，如果是从构图、看色彩看，除去摄影师的想法和技术手段，可以说镜头后面的“头”更重要。","b":false,"xe":"Many people say good work has little to do with equipment. Indeed, looking at composition and color, apart from the photographer's ideas and technical skills, one could say the \"head\" behind the lens matters more."},{"t":"p","x":"说起器材和摄影，我觉得他们是又相关又不相关。但是我们也知道哈，摄影的展现跟媒介有关，在小屏幕上看和在大屏幕上看，给人的感觉是完全不一样的。","b":false,"xe":"On equipment and photography, I think they're both related and unrelated. But we also know that photography's presentation depends on the medium — viewing on a small screen versus a large screen gives a completely different feeling."},{"t":"p","x":"你在电视上看阿拉伯的劳伦斯，你可能只能看到故事的大概，但是你要想真正体会这个史诗般的巨作的话，你一定要去电影院，大胶片拍的影片投影到巨型屏幕上的那种感觉是完全不一样的。摄影也一样，我们看大画幅照片，会让你全方面的感受上到对构图的判断，这个跟小照片是很不一样的。","b":false,"xe":"Watching \"Lawrence of Arabia\" on TV, you might only grasp the gist of the story, but to truly experience this epic masterpiece, you must go to a cinema — the feeling of large-format film projected onto a giant screen is completely different. Photography is the same: viewing large-format prints gives you a full-bodied appreciation, even of composition, which is very different from small photos."},{"t":"p","x":"所以从这个角度来说，主要是去看我们每个人拍照用来做什么，如果你的照片大部分是在网上流通的话，真是不需要很好的器材，一个普通的135全画幅相机就已经足够好了，但是如果你想将来把你的照片做成那种大型的照片展览，要给人一种很震撼的感觉，我们就需要用最好的设备。","b":false,"xe":"So from this perspective, it mainly comes down to what each of us uses our photos for. If most of your photos circulate online, you really don't need great equipment — an ordinary 135 full-frame camera is more than good enough. But if you want to turn your photos into large exhibitions that leave people awe-struck, you need the best equipment."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"我同意胡老师的观点，摄影器材可能对新手爱好者并不是特别的重要，但是对真正有创作需求、有输出需求的摄影师其实是非常重要的。","b":false,"xe":"I agree with Teacher Hu. Photography equipment may not be especially important for beginner enthusiasts, but it's actually very important for photographers with genuine creative and output needs."},{"t":"p","x":"摄影器材跟你的输出媒介以及你的创作想法是非常有关的，有的摄影师，他甚至要专门用一些特殊的器材，比如湿版的方式去拍摄，其实器材最终还是为你的输出的方式，以及你的表达去服务的。","b":false,"xe":"Photography equipment is closely tied to your output medium and creative ideas. Some photographers even deliberately use special equipment, like shooting with wet-plate processes. Ultimately, equipment serves your chosen output and your expression."},{"t":"h","x":"6","xe":"6"},{"t":"h","x":"风光摄影和社会价值","xe":"Landscape Photography and Its Social Value"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"我还想问胡老师一个问题，就是胡老师拍风光摄影这么多年，您觉得风光摄影对我们整个社会而言它的价值和意义是什么？","b":false,"xe":"I'd like to ask Teacher Hu one more question: after shooting landscape photography for so many years, what do you think its value and significance is to our society as a whole?"},{"t":"p","x":"一般来说风光摄影更多的可能是跟旅游产业相关，或者跟环保、地理探索相关。那么风光摄影有没有可能在更大的一些维度上，对我们的社会产生影响？","b":false,"xe":"Generally, landscape photography is more likely tied to the tourism industry, or to environmental protection and geographic exploration. So is it possible for landscape photography to influence our society on larger dimensions?"},{"t":"p","x":"我是觉得不需要追求社会价值。","b":false,"xe":"I don't think there's a need to pursue social value."},{"t":"p","x":"我也在别的研讨会上说过类似的话，我觉得风光摄影是对自己内心的一种表达，不光只是旅游吧，因为每个人到一定程度总是追求表达自己内心的感情。","b":false,"xe":"I've said something similar at other seminars. I think landscape photography is an expression of one's inner self — it's not just tourism. Because at a certain point, everyone seeks to express their inner feelings."},{"t":"p","x":"风光摄影是有感情的，这种感情是要表达出来的。风光摄影不只是照搬或者记录客观世界的东西。","b":false,"xe":"Landscape photography carries emotion, and that emotion needs to be expressed. Landscape photography isn't just copying or recording the objective world."},{"t":"p","x":"所以这也是为什么我们在前期要注意角度，注意你的个人的风格，后期的话同样有自己的风格，就是表达你自己创作的欲望和你的感情。","b":false,"xe":"That's also why we pay attention to angles and our personal style in the field, and maintain our own style in post-processing — it's about expressing your creative desire and emotions."},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"两位老师都知道类似于荷赛这样的摄影比赛，也有风光类别，他是比较严肃的，并且他更关注人类和社会乃至于世界当下正在发生的事情，甚至他并不把美感作为追求的第一位，但是更多的摄影爱好者选择的却不是这样的。","b":false,"xe":"Both of you know photography competitions like World Press Photo, which have a nature category. They're quite serious and pay more attention to what's currently happening with humanity, society, and even the world — they don't even prioritize beauty first. But most photography enthusiasts don't choose that path."},{"t":"p","x":"那么两位老师对这个问题是怎么看待的呢？是否追求更艺术更人文关怀的东西就是更高尚的呢？你们又有怎样的建议呢？","b":false,"xe":"So what do the two of you think about this? Is pursuing something more artistic and humanistic inherently nobler? And what suggestions do you have?"},{"t":"p","x":"确实顶级的风光摄影追求的其实不光只是美感啊，需要要多元化。至少不是这种狭义的风和日丽、日出日落，这种漂亮红山头的美感，这个美是更广义的。","b":false,"xe":"Indeed, top-tier landscape photography pursues more than just beauty — it needs diversity. At least it's not this narrow kind of beauty of pleasant weather, sunrises and sunsets, or pretty red-tinted peaks. This beauty is far broader."},{"t":"p","x":"对我来说风光摄影表达个人感情可以是平静的，也可以是汹涌澎湃的，有些让你激动的流泪，也有些是让你感动。","b":false,"xe":"For me, landscape photography can express personal emotions that are calm, or surging and powerful. Some works move you to tears of excitement, and others touch your heart."},{"t":"p","x":"对我来说，人文的追求就是关系我们每个人的心，为什么把风光摄影跟人文追求对立起来。以前有人说你们风光摄影师整天拍星空，就拍那些星空有什么意思呀，其实我拍的星空真的很少，但是我看到有些话，我有点不懂。康德说过一句话，大意是在他心中的道德律和头上的璀璨的星空，是他越想越敬畏的事情。","b":false,"xe":"For me, the humanistic pursuit is about the heart of every one of us — why pit landscape photography against humanistic pursuit? Some people used to say, \"You landscape photographers shoot starry skies all day — what's the point?\" In fact, I shoot stars very rarely. But when I read certain remarks, I don't quite understand. Kant once said something to the effect that the moral law within him and the starry heavens above him were the two things he pondered with ever-deepening awe."},{"t":"p","x":"对我来说也是这样，如果一个人号称他是艺术家，号称有人文关怀，可是当他看到璀璨的星空，他心里没有激动，他看到那种大自然美妙的事情，他不感动，他有什么资格说自己有人文关怀，有什么资格说自己是艺术家。","b":false,"xe":"It's the same for me. If a person claims to be an artist and claims to have humanistic care, yet feels no excitement when gazing at the brilliant starry sky, and is unmoved by the wonders of nature — what right do they have to claim humanistic care, or to call themselves an artist?"},{"t":"p","x":"我个人真的不喜欢把这些事对立起来，我还是希望多样化，你可以不喜欢，但你不能反对风光摄影，毕竟还有很多人是真正喜欢它的，而且内心深处需要这种和自然界亲近的东西，我们也需要的这样的敬畏。","b":false,"xe":"Personally, I really don't like pitting these things against each other — I still hope for diversity. You may not like landscape photography, but you can't oppose it, because many people genuinely love it and, deep down, need this closeness with nature. We also need such awe."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"美感并不是摄影的衡量标准，最重要的还是要能表达主题或者打动人心。大部分照片都是靠诗意和美感去打动人心，也有很多照片是靠直击心灵的震撼，或者人物故事和历史环境，甚至是荒诞怪异的风格去打动人心，我觉得这些方式都是可以的。","b":false,"xe":"Beauty is not the yardstick of photography. What matters most is the ability to express a theme or move people's hearts. Most photos move people through poetry and beauty, but many others do so through soul-striking impact, human stories and historical contexts, or even absurd and bizarre styles. I think all these approaches are valid."},{"t":"p","x":"我对电影也是这么看的，我不觉得文艺片就比商业片难度高。如果一个电影市场只有文艺片的话，可能根本没有多少人会去讨论电影，年轻人也不会对它感兴趣，工业化更是遥遥无期。","b":false,"xe":"I view film the same way — I don't think art films are inherently more difficult than commercial films. If a film market only had art films, probably few people would even discuss cinema, young people wouldn't be interested, and industrialization would be far off."},{"t":"p","x":"但如果文艺片的土壤完全消失，满目望去都是商业大片，其实这样的市场也是不健全的，缺少了基因突变的探索，就会缺少推动未来发展的后劲。","b":false,"xe":"But if the soil for art films completely disappears and all you see are commercial blockbusters, that market is also unhealthy. Without the exploration that leads to genetic mutations, you lose the momentum to drive future development."},{"t":"p","x":"所以说作为一个健全的市场，是需要有文艺、商业、科技等多方面的人才的。要有文艺片会去探讨一些社会现象，去探索更多的表达形式和表达方向，而商业片则可以去进一步发掘市场的潜力、开拓更多的受众、以及形成一个强大的工业体系。","b":false,"xe":"So a healthy market needs talent across art, commerce, technology, and more. Art films explore social phenomena and more forms and directions of expression, while commercial films further unlock market potential, expand audiences, and build a strong industrial system."},{"t":"p","x":"摄影发展到今天，除了那些各成一派的摄影师，各类相机的发明家，智能手机的工程师，社交媒体的技术极客，大街小巷上的影楼工作室，把摄影作为休闲的爱好者，以及用摄影记录着自己生活的普通人，他们也是摄影生态中的一部分，或者说是沉默的大多数。","b":false,"xe":"Photography today, besides the photographers who've carved out their own styles, includes camera inventors, smartphone engineers, social media tech geeks, studio workshops on streets everywhere, enthusiasts who treat photography as a hobby, and ordinary people who use photography to document their lives. They are all part of the photography ecosystem — or rather, the silent majority."},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"荷赛自己也遇到了一些问题，就是进入了套路化的窠臼，在中国以及整个世界的关注度也是越来越低。每年都是一些政治正确的照片获奖，再有人文关怀也会失去吸引力。","b":false,"xe":"World Press Photo itself has encountered problems — it's fallen into formulaic ruts, and its relevance in China and around the world is declining. When politically correct photos win every year, even the humanistic care loses its appeal."},{"t":"p","x":"荷赛确实套路化太严重了，有段时间几乎全是非洲难民题材获奖，就有人说干脆单独成立一个非洲奖项算了，省的别的题材都获不了奖。","b":false,"xe":"World Press Photo is indeed far too formulaic. For a while almost all the winners were about African refugees, and some people joked they might as well create a separate Africa award so other subjects could win."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"荷赛现在也在寻求突破，今年新设了一些奖项，加入了多媒体互动的奖项，对于荷赛而言，即使追求的是人文关怀，但是如果没有突破，失去发展的话，仍然会遇到瓶颈。","b":false,"xe":"World Press Photo is now also seeking breakthroughs. This year it added some new categories, including multimedia interactive awards. For WPP, even in pursuing humanistic care, if there's no breakthrough and no development, it will still hit a ceiling."},{"t":"p","x":"所以说我觉得最重要的是不要满足于现状，老是搞一些复古和重复的东西。时代是一直在改变的，如果停滞不前，就一定会被时代淘汰。","b":false,"xe":"So I think the most important thing is not to be complacent or keep producing retro and repetitive work. The times are always changing — if you stand still, you're bound to be left behind."},{"t":"h","x":"7","xe":"7"},{"t":"h","x":"关注摄影之外","xe":"Beyond Photography"},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"那么，摄影以外的东西对你们的作品影响更大还是摄影本身？","b":false,"xe":"So, do things beyond photography influence your work more, or photography itself?"},{"t":"p","x":"安塞尔•亚当斯的一句名言是这么说的：我们不只是用相机拍照，我们带到摄影中去的是所有我们读过的书，看过的电影，听过的音乐，爱过的人。这句话你们认同吗？","b":false,"xe":"Ansel Adams famously said: \"We don't take photographs with just a camera. We bring to the act of photography all the pictures we have seen, the books we have read, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.\" Do you two agree with this?"},{"t":"p","x":"我不知道，好像没法定量。但我还是得引用那句老生常谈：我们读过的书看过的电影...都会带到摄影里。换句话说，功夫在诗外。","b":false,"xe":"I don't know — it seems hard to quantify. But I still have to quote that old saying: the books we've read, the films we've seen... they all carry into our photography. In other words, the real skill lies beyond the craft itself."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"Thomas","b":false,"xe":"Thomas"},{"t":"p","x":"对我而言的话，肯定是摄影之外的东西，比如说徒步、户外以及探索世界的乐趣，带给我的影响更大。","b":false,"xe":"For me, it's definitely things beyond photography — like hiking, the outdoors, and the joy of exploring the world — that have influenced me more."},{"t":"p","x":"摄影只是我记录和展现我的视角的一种方式。我现在也是在尝试用一些图片文字、以及视频，而不光是平面摄影的方式，采用多种形式去展现我探索旅行的过程，唤起大家对自然的向往。","b":false,"xe":"Photography is just one way I record and present my perspective. I'm now also trying to use images, text, and video — not only still photography — to present my exploration and travels in multiple forms, evoking everyone's longing for nature."},{"t":"p","x":"我觉得摄影终究和文字一样，它只是一种表达的媒介，最重要的还是我们背后的生活，背后的经历吧。只有与众不同的经历，才能写出与众不同的文章，拍出与众不同的照片。","b":false,"xe":"I think photography, like writing, is ultimately just a medium of expression. What matters most is the life and experiences behind it. Only with extraordinary experiences can you write extraordinary articles and take extraordinary photos."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"我是觉得咱们在国内最需要提倡的是一种多元化的观念和思想，不要一窝蜂。","b":false,"xe":"I think what we most need to advocate in China is a mindset of diversity — don't all jump on the same bandwagon."},{"t":"p","x":"对待任何一种风格，你都不能一把捧上天或者把他打到地下去。我希望多元化，就像吃菜，整天是青菜、豆腐，你会觉得很寡淡，但是整天是大鱼大肉的话，你也会觉得很腻歪。","b":false,"xe":"With any style, you can't either glorify it to the heavens or condemn it to the ground. I hope for diversity. It's like food: eating only greens and tofu every day gets bland, but eating only rich meat and fish every day gets cloying."},{"t":"p","x":"一个摄影师可能是一个风格，但是整个社会如果只是一种风格就很可怕了。","b":false,"xe":"A photographer may have one style, but it would be frightening if an entire society had only one style."},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"p","x":"我们可以进一步扩展去看，不光只是风光摄影的风格，比方说几十年前中国摄影界就是主推风光，其他都不重视，那是很可怕的事情。","b":false,"xe":"We can look at this more broadly — not just landscape photography styles. For example, decades ago the Chinese photography community pushed landscape photography to the exclusion of everything else, which was a frightening thing."},{"t":"p","x":"但是后来突然又变了，好像风光摄影就是见不得人的，包括现在很多摄影界的领导，还是会拼命去贬风光，认为人文至上。","b":false,"xe":"But then things suddenly changed, as if landscape photography were something shameful. Even now, many leaders in the photography community still go out of their way to disparage landscape work, insisting on the supremacy of humanistic photography."},{"t":"p","x":"其实这都是错误的，你可以想象如果这个世界只有风光摄影，或只有人文摄影，只有某种事情是多么可怕的一件事情，具体某一种流派其实没有什么对错的。","b":false,"xe":"These views are all wrong. Imagine how frightening it would be if the world had only landscape photography, or only humanistic photography — only one kind of thing. No single school is inherently right or wrong."},{"t":"img","f":"img-08","w":1079,"h":1079},{"t":"p","x":"杰克兔","b":false,"xe":"Jack Rabbit"},{"t":"p","x":"好，下面请胡老师总结吧！ 给我们星粲学院的摄影爱好者们，简短的建议。","b":false,"xe":"All right, let's have Teacher Hu wrap up with some brief advice for the photography enthusiasts at our Xingcan Academy (星粱学院)."},{"t":"p","x":"好吧，我希望广大的摄影爱好者，不管你是初学者也好，或者是已经资深的风光摄影师也好，都能够以一种谦虚的心态去学习新的思想、新的概念、新的技术，可以去不断的提高自己。","b":false,"xe":"Well, I hope all photography enthusiasts — whether you're a beginner or a seasoned landscape photographer — can learn new ideas, new concepts, and new techniques with a humble mindset, and keep improving yourselves."},{"t":"p","x":"同时呢，也可以永远保持一种童心，一种纯真的东西，也不要追求太多功利，虽然功利本身也没什么错，但是不能让追名逐利影响你在摄影艺术方面的进步。","b":false,"xe":"At the same time, keep a childlike innocence and purity forever, and don't chase too much utilitarianism. Though being pragmatic isn't wrong in itself, don't let the pursuit of fame and profit hinder your progress in photographic art."},{"t":"p","x":"而且我们需要有一种包容的心态，不管是你喜欢的东西，还是不喜欢的东西，不管看得懂还是看不懂，所有的风格、所有的题材都有自己存在的价值和意义。","b":false,"xe":"And we need an inclusive mindset. Whether it's something you like or dislike, whether you understand it or not, every style and every subject has its own value and meaning for existing."},{"t":"img","f":"img-09","w":640,"h":640},{"t":"p","x":"云漫","b":false,"xe":"Yunman (云漫)"},{"t":"h","x":"相关书籍：","xe":"Related Books:"},{"t":"p","x":"本文首发于“星粲工作室”公众号","b":false,"xe":"This article was first published on the WeChat official account of Xingcan Studio (星粱工作室)."},{"t":"img","f":"img-10","w":840,"h":354},{"t":"h","x":"相关文章：","xe":"Related Articles:"},{"t":"p","x":"《这些照片为什么能拿到国家地理摄影大奖？》","b":false,"xe":"\"Why Did These Photos Win National Geographic Photography Awards?\" (《这些照片为什么能拿到国家地理摄影大奖？》)"},{"t":"p","x":"《500px上最值得关注的5位风光摄影师》","b":false,"xe":"\"5 Landscape Photographers Most Worth Following on 500px\" (《500px上最值得关注的5位风光摄影师》)"},{"t":"p","x":"《你天天看的大片，其实只是风光摄影的冰山一角》","b":false,"xe":"\"The Stunning Photos You See Every Day Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg of Landscape Photography\" (《你天天看的大片，其实只是风光摄影的冰山一角》)"},{"t":"p","x":"《最好的风格就是极致，4位值得关注的小众风光摄影师》","b":false,"xe":"\"The Best Style Is Perfection: 4 Niche Landscape Photographers Worth Following\" (《最好的风格就是极致，4位值得关注的小众风光摄影师》)"},{"t":"p","x":"《没有红云就不知道怎么拍？不妨关注一下这3位风光摄影师~》","b":false,"xe":"\"Don't Know How to Shoot Without Red Clouds? Check Out These 3 Landscape Photographers~\" (《没有红云就不知道怎么拍？不妨关注一下这3位风光摄影师~》)"}],"titleEn":"Landscape Photography Requires Following Your Heart - Thomas in Conversation with Photographer Yunman (云漫)"}